23 thoughts on “Keynesian policies have brought Britain to the brink of ruin”

  1. Posted 24/06/2010 at 12:37 | Permalink

    Keynes’s musings were based on real growth in income per capita of just over 2 per cent a year — which is what we have seen for many years and which we can probably hope and expect to achieve in future.

    I object to calling the ‘pay as you go’ system of public sector pensions a ‘Ponzi scheme’ (though I believe Neil Record himself has used this term), since its basis is reasonably transparent. Ponzi schemes, in contrast, are based on fraud, on criminal deception.

    A better analogy is the ‘chain letter’, where if everyone ‘obeys’ the instructions, you get a lot of money when your name comes to the top. That is not fraudulent: nobody promises that everyone will keep the chain going.

  2. Posted 24/06/2010 at 12:44 | Permalink

    […] It’s even worse than I thought. f you dare, read more here. […]

  3. Posted 24/06/2010 at 13:00 | Permalink

    A Pay as you go system is structured exactly like a Ponzi scheme, except that the pay as you go scheme, think the social security system in the US, has government backing.

    A public sector pension that had some sort of investment system – like the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, the pension fund of the province of Québec that incidentally owns a large share of London’s airports – would provide a better return for a reduced cost even if per capita income growth was only 2% a year.

  4. Posted 24/06/2010 at 13:00 | Permalink

    Is it not the case that since our children will be immeasurable richer than we are, (probably) regardless of the actions of today’s, or any other government, it is only fair for us to borrow from them, and them from their children. Their income will certainly be adversely affected, but that is not the point.

    We have more to gain now than they will in a generations time.

  5. Posted 24/06/2010 at 13:11 | Permalink

    You might have written this article differently had you seen the Wall of Debt page in the Times yesterday. The Government could have printed a modest GBP 50 billion to obviate the 5 billion of cuts planned for the first year, the 23 billion planned for the second, and 22 billion of the 42 billion planned for the third year. Really, the markets wouldn’t have noticed.

  6. Posted 24/06/2010 at 13:39 | Permalink

    We have almost reached the point of no return. It is likely we will go down the inflation route rather than pay our liabilities back honestly.

    I don’t think Weimar-esque is out the question. Indeed, I think that it is a more likely scenario in the US due to their politicised central banking system. Nonetheless, default or inflate, both are equally catastrophic to the “structural integrity” of an economy.

  7. Posted 24/06/2010 at 14:45 | Permalink

    David – I disagree, I think paygo schemes are Ponzi. They are transparent to the generation imposing the burden, but the generation paying has no vote and, to large degree, has not been born (indeed not enough of them will be born to pay the bills!). That is exactly like a Ponzi scheme – the people at the top know what they are doing, the people at the bottom don’t know what is going on.

  8. Posted 24/06/2010 at 15:36 | Permalink

    “Is it not the case that since our children will be immeasurable richer than we are”

    No. If the state continues to loot the productivity of the people and throw away the money on welfare and sh!t schools / boredom factories while imposing ever more detailed and rigorous regulations on us then there will be no innovation, enterprise or growth.

  9. Posted 24/06/2010 at 17:01 | Permalink

    Even if the government does walk such a path, any realistic worst case scenario still leads to them being much, much richer than us. Even if we were only to free-ride on the technological improvements of other countries while systematically hampering growth, that would almost definitely be enough to provide a higher average material standard of living for the next generation.

  10. Posted 24/06/2010 at 17:12 | Permalink

    @ Michael Petek (June 24th, 2010 at 2:11 pm)
    “The Government could have printed a modest GBP 50 billion … the markets wouldn’t have noticed”

    I haven’t read any of your other posts, so I’m not sure whether you’re joking. The government could have done this (it’s a mere quarter of the QE debasement). If they had, the split would have been 100% (stealth) taxes to 0% cuts, instead of the actual 77:23 (or 60:40, if we’re honest). The markets would have reacted very badly indeed to this naked Zimbabwe-style government funding ploy.

    There’s also a 5th point of bad news for those of us in the West: the inevitable rebalancing of the global economy.

  11. Posted 24/06/2010 at 17:55 | Permalink

    MRG, your posting makes no sense in that you haven’t answered the undergraduate essay question: “How Much Money Should There Be?”.

  12. Posted 24/06/2010 at 18:49 | Permalink

    Any amount you like. It’s the redistribution and reckless manipulation that concerns me.

    Happy travels.

  13. Posted 24/06/2010 at 19:33 | Permalink

    I agree with Philip here: PAYGO schemes fit the definition of Ponzi schemes as the youngsters do not know what is going on and were not even born before being enrolled; also there is fraud in that the system makes them promises it cannot fulfill.

    Another feature that is deeply wrong about this system is that they were not given the right to opt out – taken to its limit, this is like being born into slavery.

  14. Posted 24/06/2010 at 20:19 | Permalink

    ‘Any amount you like’, so where’s the basis of a unique right answer?

  15. Posted 24/06/2010 at 21:00 | Permalink

    “Mr. Baker painted a frightening scenario in which the fiscal policies of western governments are unsustainable, and were even before the recent crisis erupted.”

    It is nice to see others think this.

    As for Keynes, if we lived as people did 100 years ago, with the same housing, wardrobe (and churn), heating, diet, furnishings and appliances, modes of transportation and leisure pursuits, I am sure most people could get away with 3 hours work a day. Problem is, would you work that extra hour for that central heating? Or a bigger home? Or inside WC? Or a good healthcare package? Schooling for the Kids?

  16. Posted 25/06/2010 at 17:40 | Permalink

    Michael Petek is a lunatic!! Once again – the government should not be creating inflation by printing money and nor should it control the money supply! The markets might not notice but the people who’s savings have been destroyed by inflation might…

  17. Posted 25/06/2010 at 19:02 | Permalink

    Michael Petek:

    Nobody knows the ‘right’ amount. That’s the point. But the great equation solving miracle machine of the ‘market’ will work it out. Hence if the State makes more money than it should (where the State monopoly of money exists), prices of goods and services calculated in that money rise. The market adjusts to the new ‘debased’ lower value money. Go on printing money and Zimbabwe here we come.

  18. Posted 25/06/2010 at 20:28 | Permalink

    Guess what, Whig and Lola! I’ve got a great idea. Let’s abolish money and trade by barter! That way we’d get rid of inflation altogether.

  19. Posted 28/06/2010 at 06:59 | Permalink

    Even if we were only to free-ride on the technological improvements of other countries while systematically hampering growth, that would almost definitely be enough to provide a higher average material standard of living for the next generation.

    Yes, exactly…like the people of North Korea, for example! Rich b*******, the lot of ‘em!

  20. Posted 29/06/2010 at 18:22 | Permalink

    Keynesianism is meaningless in the context of a command economy such as North Korea. By the way, can someone provide argument refuting the heart of Keynesianism: that time, money and uncertainty of the future converge to ensure that the burden of adjustment is borne by quantities, not prices?

  21. Posted 30/06/2010 at 11:19 | Permalink

    I think that North Korea provides a sufficient justification of the idea that the more government intervenes in an economy, the less that economy will grow! That seems to be a refutation of the ‘heart’ of Keynesianism.

  22. Posted 30/06/2010 at 14:41 | Permalink

    Whig, your analysis is as deep as Mount Everest and as sharp as a football.

  23. Posted 04/07/2010 at 12:32 | Permalink

    Is it surprising that nations which depend for their money supply on systemic debt owed at compound interest to the banking system should find themselves bankrupt?

    What’s really surprising is that sane people should accept the arbitrary requirement of orthodox economics that every unit of money created should generate an equal unit of debt. If all loans were repaid without further debt being undertaken, we would have no means of exchange.

    For a simple reform which would correct this fundamental problem, see The Bank of England (Creation of Currency) Bill 2010 at http://www.bankofenglandact.co.uk/.

Comments are closed.